<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Tubular rant</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/</link>
	<description>The idle musings of John B</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:23:21 +0100</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: WhyNoFleetLine</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14202</link>
		<dc:creator>WhyNoFleetLine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14202</guid>
		<description>Right we&#039;re down to 10%. 

Let&#039;s boost that back up with the lines to Heathrow, all underground from Hounslow West and built from 1975-1986.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right we&#8217;re down to 10%. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s boost that back up with the lines to Heathrow, all underground from Hounslow West and built from 1975-1986.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dave heasman</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14201</link>
		<dc:creator>dave heasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 18:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14201</guid>
		<description>The Jubilee Line may be 22 miles long, but the stretch from Stanmore to Baker St, must be 10 miles,  used to be the Bakerloo line and has existed since the 30s. So no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Jubilee Line may be 22 miles long, but the stretch from Stanmore to Baker St, must be 10 miles,  used to be the Bakerloo line and has existed since the 30s. So no.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WhyNoFleetLine</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14199</link>
		<dc:creator>WhyNoFleetLine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14199</guid>
		<description>I take the point about BR. I meant to set the scene for rail investment generally. If you want an urban comparison then think tram or trolley bus. The consensus was that rail was yesterday. 

I&#039;m not opposed to investment, but I think you vastly overstate your case. In the central zone most lines were built in two main phases: subsurface first and then tube. The thirties extensions were largely suburban and included the Central line extremities, much of it was already built. The two new inner circle lines represented a massive investment compared to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take the point about BR. I meant to set the scene for rail investment generally. If you want an urban comparison then think tram or trolley bus. The consensus was that rail was yesterday. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not opposed to investment, but I think you vastly overstate your case. In the central zone most lines were built in two main phases: subsurface first and then tube. The thirties extensions were largely suburban and included the Central line extremities, much of it was already built. The two new inner circle lines represented a massive investment compared to that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14198</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14198</guid>
		<description>&quot;Out of a network of 253 miles this represents 14.1% built since the war in period when the national rail network contracted by half, and the underground itself saw some closures.&quot;

BR is a daft comparison - the lines closed were largely rural ones transporting air twice a day from Greater Piddling to Little Piddling. 

The point about London is that since about 1850 it&#039;s been so big and dense that public transport is the only viable way of getting around it (as I said somewhere else, you could close down all railway lines outside former Network Southeast and the PTE metro areas, and the net result would be annoyance and pollution rather than carnage).

(and closures on the Underground consisted of a few Little Piddling-style branch lines to nowhere at the Met and Central lines&#039; extremities, and the joke, only-built-because-Parliament-was-bloody-minded Aldwych branch).

I&#039;m saying investment in new lines was low because it was less than a third of the investment that, in the mid-1930s, was considered absolutely essential to keep London moving. I&#039;m also saying that the investment not in new lines was sod-all, because it was (they replaced some trains that were 50 years old, and mended some signal cables).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Out of a network of 253 miles this represents 14.1% built since the war in period when the national rail network contracted by half, and the underground itself saw some closures.&#8221;</p>
<p>BR is a daft comparison &#8211; the lines closed were largely rural ones transporting air twice a day from Greater Piddling to Little Piddling. </p>
<p>The point about London is that since about 1850 it&#8217;s been so big and dense that public transport is the only viable way of getting around it (as I said somewhere else, you could close down all railway lines outside former Network Southeast and the PTE metro areas, and the net result would be annoyance and pollution rather than carnage).</p>
<p>(and closures on the Underground consisted of a few Little Piddling-style branch lines to nowhere at the Met and Central lines&#8217; extremities, and the joke, only-built-because-Parliament-was-bloody-minded Aldwych branch).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying investment in new lines was low because it was less than a third of the investment that, in the mid-1930s, was considered absolutely essential to keep London moving. I&#8217;m also saying that the investment not in new lines was sod-all, because it was (they replaced some trains that were 50 years old, and mended some signal cables).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: WhyNoFleetLine</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14195</link>
		<dc:creator>WhyNoFleetLine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14195</guid>
		<description>The Victoria line is 13.25 miles long, the Jubilee 22.5 miles, totalling 35.75 miles. Out of a network of 253 miles this represents 14.1% built since the war in period when the national rail network contracted by half, and the underground itself saw some closures. 

Much of that 253 mile network is in suburban areas where surface line costs were substantially cheaper or else the underground took over surface lines such as the route to Ongar. In contrast both new lines were concentrated entirely in the very high cost central zone underground. The comparison to total mileage is therefore misleading - if we focus instead on underground mile or on the area within the Circle line the ratio greatly exceeds 14%.

Even 14% represents a substantial investment under the conditions of the time. So your statement that &quot;apart from that there was no investment...&quot; is is technically true but misleading. Apart from the elephant, the room was empty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Victoria line is 13.25 miles long, the Jubilee 22.5 miles, totalling 35.75 miles. Out of a network of 253 miles this represents 14.1% built since the war in period when the national rail network contracted by half, and the underground itself saw some closures. </p>
<p>Much of that 253 mile network is in suburban areas where surface line costs were substantially cheaper or else the underground took over surface lines such as the route to Ongar. In contrast both new lines were concentrated entirely in the very high cost central zone underground. The comparison to total mileage is therefore misleading &#8211; if we focus instead on underground mile or on the area within the Circle line the ratio greatly exceeds 14%.</p>
<p>Even 14% represents a substantial investment under the conditions of the time. So your statement that &#8220;apart from that there was no investment&#8230;&#8221; is is technically true but misleading. Apart from the elephant, the room was empty.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14167</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14167</guid>
		<description>wow, that&#039;s a blast from the past.

stockwell, amersham, baker street, no idea, and baker street (I&#039;ve also lost the password, cleverly). however, I definitely worked DIY Headgear out once, so hopefully it&#039;ll be gettable again...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, that&#8217;s a blast from the past.</p>
<p>stockwell, amersham, baker street, no idea, and baker street (I&#8217;ve also lost the password, cleverly). however, I definitely worked DIY Headgear out once, so hopefully it&#8217;ll be gettable again&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dave heasman</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14165</link>
		<dc:creator>dave heasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14165</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure you&#039;re right ablout tube investment.  Now, to cases - your tube quiz spreadsheet from 1806 or so. What are the answers to &quot;healthy herd on the farm&quot;, &quot;I&#039;m a fraud&quot; &quot;DIY headgear&quot; and &quot;An elementary stop&quot;??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re right ablout tube investment.  Now, to cases &#8211; your tube quiz spreadsheet from 1806 or so. What are the answers to &#8220;healthy herd on the farm&#8221;, &#8220;I&#8217;m a fraud&#8221; &#8220;DIY headgear&#8221; and &#8220;An elementary stop&#8221;??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-14121</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-14121</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp;q=infraco+tfl&amp;meta=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Official&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&#038;q=infraco+tfl&#038;meta=" rel="nofollow">Official</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ghost of mike oldfield</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/comment-page-1/#comment-13814</link>
		<dc:creator>ghost of mike oldfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2007/06/27/tubular-rant/#comment-13814</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, but is that word &quot;infracos&quot; official, or did you make it up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, but is that word &#8220;infracos&#8221; official, or did you make it up?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
