Comments on: Generic response to generic ‘oh no, the trains are so expensive’ wittering

By: Matthew

Matthew — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:21:16 +0000

“The only sensible indicator of whether incomes are rising ahead of, or below, prices is whether or not there is real GDP per head growth ”

And the income distribution, surely?

By: John B

John B — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:56:07 +0000

That’s the general trade-off of working in the public sector. You get lower pay rises in the good times, but are less likely to be laid off in the bad times.

By: Claude

Claude — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:35:31 +0000

Until 2006 I was employed by my local council. A job that most people would call ’safe’ and ‘privileged’ as against the equivalent in the private sector.

Our collective agreement entailed a 2% annual pay rise.

John B, I don’t think the annual inflation was 0%, or was it?

By: john b

john b — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 09:46:36 +0000

A voodoo survey by an internet company? I used to do those, and they’re not exactly National Statistics.

The only sensible indicator of whether incomes are rising ahead of, or below, prices is whether or not there is real GDP per head growth. If there is, they’re ahead; if there isn’t, they’re behind. Anything beyond that is irrelevant nonsense.

By: Claude

Claude — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 06:03:51 +0000

Facts alert.
This is from the Times – 8/9 months ago, before the recession started. About wage increases and inflation.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/budget_2008/article3517108.ece

By: Neil

Neil — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:29:41 +0000

Anecdote alert: I recently did a rail trip across eastern/central Europe (where wages are low and so on) and it cost just over 5p/kilometre. The average speed was a staggering 58km/h.

My last train trip with First Great Western cost just under 5p/kilometre, and the average speed was over 100km/h.

By: John B

John B — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:37:45 +0000

Eh? What employers make you go 200 miles on a business trip and then don’t refund it (”crooks” would be my answer of choice)? Obviously commuting’s a different matter…

On the “pay rise above inflation” point, while some commenters here might be out of luck, it’s pretty clear from the data that in real life, this is what happened to most people on average during the period of economic growth between the mid-1990s and this summer. Again, I’ve admitted here and on Hagley Road that this year it won’t be the case for many people (if anyone).

d1960 – it’s a pretty useless challenge since it depends on the size of the city, the geography of the city, and the layout of municipal administrative boundaries – which all vary massively.

In New York you’re on something like Tottenville on Staten Island to Crocheron Park in Queens, which will certainly take longer and cost more than any x-London journey and for which the MTA planner won’t even quote a route nevermind a fare (60km, Google reckons 2h53 on public transport). In Amsterdam, it’d be more like Sloterdijk to Bijlmermeer (16km, 24 mins, EUR3).

Since Brentwood and Caterham aren’t in London your example’s a bit odd – the longest journey I can think of that *is* is Northwood to Upminster (60km, 1h25, GBP3.50), which doesn’t seem at all bad by comparison.

Worth noting, though, that the price there is a bit flattered by the fact that the journey is all on London Underground (or on rail lines where LU tickets are valid). In general, London travel on single journeys on TfL services (ie LU, London Overground, trams, buses) is good value, London travel on single National Rail journeys tends towards expensive, and London travel on single journeys combining the two modes tends towards “sod it, I’ll stay home”.

By: Claude

Claude — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:50:08 +0000

Tom, I agree. That pay rise above inflation stuff, I really don’t know where he got it from. WHere he works maybe. John B sounds like a fairly lucky person to me. He gets a pay rise above inflation. His bosses pay for his train journeys. I mean, bloody hell mate… any vacancies at your work???

By: diogenes1960

diogenes1960 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:37:59 +0000

just to say that because it is now Winter rather than Summer, my journey takes 20 minutes longer each way…theoretically, bacause it’s colder, the electricity ought to go faster, shouldn’t it?

By: diogenes1960

diogenes1960 — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 23:36:37 +0000

why not have the John Band challenge:

for every major city, take the north-south and east-west journey – Cockfosters – Caterham, Ealing-Brentwood – and say which one costs the most, takes the most time and involves the most changes of transport. I would be surprised if London comes out very well.