<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Airline security is the last refuge of the scoundrel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/</link>
	<description>The idle musings of John B</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:27:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109157</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109157</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an utterly absurd statement. I have blanket contempt for a great many groups, including but not limited to: rapists; genocidaires; violent religious extremists. Am I dehumanising and/or bullying them? Is that wrong of me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an utterly absurd statement. I have blanket contempt for a great many groups, including but not limited to: rapists; genocidaires; violent religious extremists. Am I dehumanising and/or bullying them? Is that wrong of me?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109156</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109156</guid>
		<description>Well then you really do sound like you’re a more unpleasant individual that I’d thought at the outset; an allegation of blanket contempt, for example, it something one is expected to take issue with, not seek to justify. I’m also baffled, looking back at your initial comments on the forum, as to why you affect disdain for bullies; it suggests either hypocrisy or a lack of self-awareness.

Still, I wish you luck – with your attitude you’ll need it – and I’ll leave you where I came in, by pointing out the obvious; that if you do dehumanise and have blanket contempt for any particular grouping of individuals then you really should expect problems each time you encounter one of those individuals; but disentangling their culpability from you own admitted prejudice is impossible, and pointless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then you really do sound like you’re a more unpleasant individual that I’d thought at the outset; an allegation of blanket contempt, for example, it something one is expected to take issue with, not seek to justify. I’m also baffled, looking back at your initial comments on the forum, as to why you affect disdain for bullies; it suggests either hypocrisy or a lack of self-awareness.</p>
<p>Still, I wish you luck – with your attitude you’ll need it – and I’ll leave you where I came in, by pointing out the obvious; that if you do dehumanise and have blanket contempt for any particular grouping of individuals then you really should expect problems each time you encounter one of those individuals; but disentangling their culpability from you own admitted prejudice is impossible, and pointless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109135</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 00:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109135</guid>
		<description>Chris pretty much says everything here. Yes, the individuals who follow orders to enforce crazy nonsense might not be bad people in their own right, any more than a policeman beating people over the head in a baton charge is a bad person. That&#039;s irrelevant. They&#039;re the primary enforcers of a system that deserves blanket contempt, and hence deserve blanket contempt.

On the &#039;scissors&#039;, &#039;liquids&#039; point - sometimes I carry things around, and sometimes the things that I find useful include scissors and liquids. Because I have no desire to spend any more time in aviation security than is absolutely compulsory, I try and avoid carrying them through aviation security. Sometimes I only remember that I&#039;m carrying the bloody things when I reach the pre-security tables, and so have to throw them away (I try and avoid checking luggage if I can - it&#039;s one more thing to wait for and/or lose - I understand but have no wish to emulate your giving up on that point); about twice since everything went silly I&#039;ve failed to spot them before the checkpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris pretty much says everything here. Yes, the individuals who follow orders to enforce crazy nonsense might not be bad people in their own right, any more than a policeman beating people over the head in a baton charge is a bad person. That&#8217;s irrelevant. They&#8217;re the primary enforcers of a system that deserves blanket contempt, and hence deserve blanket contempt.</p>
<p>On the &#8217;scissors&#8217;, &#8216;liquids&#8217; point &#8211; sometimes I carry things around, and sometimes the things that I find useful include scissors and liquids. Because I have no desire to spend any more time in aviation security than is absolutely compulsory, I try and avoid carrying them through aviation security. Sometimes I only remember that I&#8217;m carrying the bloody things when I reach the pre-security tables, and so have to throw them away (I try and avoid checking luggage if I can &#8211; it&#8217;s one more thing to wait for and/or lose &#8211; I understand but have no wish to emulate your giving up on that point); about twice since everything went silly I&#8217;ve failed to spot them before the checkpoint.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109038</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109038</guid>
		<description>Wow, you’re hard work, but congratulations of a sort are due, for missing the point in just about the most clueless way possible. Here’s my response anyway, in more detail than you deserve.

In “the good old days” before 9/11, I often did a little shuffle between my hand luggage and my hold luggage to ensure that aerosols, scissors and firearms were in the correct bag prior to boarding. Since the recent, more onerous security checks have been imposed I have ensured that I carry the bare minimum through customs – passport, tickets, newspaper, nothing else – to make things as easy as possible. I’ve still had to go through the ridiculous rigmarole of getting dressed airside after having removed my shoes and belt landside, and I think that the current restrictions are in the main absurd (although the hour wasted in a pointless queue also means a hour saved wasting money in an overpriced bar airside.) But no, I haven’t had a problem with airport security, by which I mean the security staff, who were the object of your insults and hence the reason for my initial comment.

John, you’re an intelligent man, or so it is claimed; but the rules – ridiculous as they are – say that you can’t take scissors or liquids over a certain volume in your hand luggage, so why even try? The security staff, I would suggest, have zero discretion over what they can or cannot allow onboard, and so do not deserve your blanket contempt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, you’re hard work, but congratulations of a sort are due, for missing the point in just about the most clueless way possible. Here’s my response anyway, in more detail than you deserve.</p>
<p>In “the good old days” before 9/11, I often did a little shuffle between my hand luggage and my hold luggage to ensure that aerosols, scissors and firearms were in the correct bag prior to boarding. Since the recent, more onerous security checks have been imposed I have ensured that I carry the bare minimum through customs – passport, tickets, newspaper, nothing else – to make things as easy as possible. I’ve still had to go through the ridiculous rigmarole of getting dressed airside after having removed my shoes and belt landside, and I think that the current restrictions are in the main absurd (although the hour wasted in a pointless queue also means a hour saved wasting money in an overpriced bar airside.) But no, I haven’t had a problem with airport security, by which I mean the security staff, who were the object of your insults and hence the reason for my initial comment.</p>
<p>John, you’re an intelligent man, or so it is claimed; but the rules – ridiculous as they are – say that you can’t take scissors or liquids over a certain volume in your hand luggage, so why even try? The security staff, I would suggest, have zero discretion over what they can or cannot allow onboard, and so do not deserve your blanket contempt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Applegate</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109013</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Applegate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109013</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a regular flyer, though I flew last week and encountered an utterly joyless notice that Christmas crackers were considered explosives and hence banned. From this experience and others, I&#039;m tending towards the opinion that the reason why free-market authoritarians love air travel so much (this covers runway-building-loving Labour ministers as well as Tories who cheer on police beating up global warming protesters) is not because they love flying, but they love airports. They embody a sanitised and apparently well-ordered regime where inflexibility rules and people are cajoled, belittled and harrassed for the pettiest of misdemeanours, the reasoning fo doing so based on the ruling class&#039;s fear and cognitive biases than any real evidence. Also, you can turn a tidy profit from a captive market by charging £3 for a bottle of guaranteed non-terrorist water. If they had it their way, all of society would be ordered and run like our airports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a regular flyer, though I flew last week and encountered an utterly joyless notice that Christmas crackers were considered explosives and hence banned. From this experience and others, I&#8217;m tending towards the opinion that the reason why free-market authoritarians love air travel so much (this covers runway-building-loving Labour ministers as well as Tories who cheer on police beating up global warming protesters) is not because they love flying, but they love airports. They embody a sanitised and apparently well-ordered regime where inflexibility rules and people are cajoled, belittled and harrassed for the pettiest of misdemeanours, the reasoning fo doing so based on the ruling class&#8217;s fear and cognitive biases than any real evidence. Also, you can turn a tidy profit from a captive market by charging £3 for a bottle of guaranteed non-terrorist water. If they had it their way, all of society would be ordered and run like our airports.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-109004</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-109004</guid>
		<description>I genuinely can&#039;t understand the concept that you&#039;re &quot;never had a problem&quot; with airport security. You mean, you&#039;ve never had to wait an hour in a pointless queue? You&#039;ve never had to throw away your nail scissors? You&#039;ve never been on a short trip to Europe and had to not buy a bottle of the local booze as a present because you weren&#039;t allowed it in hand luggage? You&#039;ve never had to pay three quid for a bottle of water airside? Have you actually been on a plane ever?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I genuinely can&#8217;t understand the concept that you&#8217;re &#8220;never had a problem&#8221; with airport security. You mean, you&#8217;ve never had to wait an hour in a pointless queue? You&#8217;ve never had to throw away your nail scissors? You&#8217;ve never been on a short trip to Europe and had to not buy a bottle of the local booze as a present because you weren&#8217;t allowed it in hand luggage? You&#8217;ve never had to pay three quid for a bottle of water airside? Have you actually been on a plane ever?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-108990</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-108990</guid>
		<description>I’d have thought it was blindingly obvious what I was trying to say; it is that, broadly, we reap what we sow in customer services. I was puzzled by your post, and tried to understand how it is that I’ve never had a problem with airport security, and yet you seem to have nothing but trouble. Obviously I don’t mean that you’re meant to respect bullies, but it probably helps if you don’t disrespect people on the basis of their occupation in the first place, as you seem to do. There are many ways to fail the “attitude test” that fall short of outright rudeness – considering people to be &quot;worthless&quot;, &quot;security gimps&quot; with &quot;no chance of success in real life&quot; usually counts – and doing so more or less ensures a shitty attitude in return.

So it’s good to know that you’re &quot;never actually rude&quot; to airport security staff in person, and that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403697&amp;page=18&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you reserve your rudeness for when you speak to them via internet forums&lt;/a&gt;. But since you’ve now retracted those comments, I’ll leave it at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’d have thought it was blindingly obvious what I was trying to say; it is that, broadly, we reap what we sow in customer services. I was puzzled by your post, and tried to understand how it is that I’ve never had a problem with airport security, and yet you seem to have nothing but trouble. Obviously I don’t mean that you’re meant to respect bullies, but it probably helps if you don’t disrespect people on the basis of their occupation in the first place, as you seem to do. There are many ways to fail the “attitude test” that fall short of outright rudeness – considering people to be &#8220;worthless&#8221;, &#8220;security gimps&#8221; with &#8220;no chance of success in real life&#8221; usually counts – and doing so more or less ensures a shitty attitude in return.</p>
<p>So it’s good to know that you’re &#8220;never actually rude&#8221; to airport security staff in person, and that <a href="http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403697&amp;page=18" rel="nofollow">you reserve your rudeness for when you speak to them via internet forums</a>. But since you’ve now retracted those comments, I’ll leave it at that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John B</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-108897</link>
		<dc:creator>John B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-108897</guid>
		<description>I have literally no idea what you&#039;re trying to say. &quot;I should respect jumped-up bullying idiots doing a pointless job, because then they&#039;ll respect me?&quot;

FWIW, I&#039;m never actually rude to aviation security people, much as they deserve it - it&#039;s not worth missing one&#039;s flight for the sake of standing up to one. But I hate the experience of having to defer and kowtow to them (or indeed to anyone - but if I&#039;m going to have to defer and kowtow to someone, I&#039;d rather it was someone who&#039;d actually done something worth respecting).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have literally no idea what you&#8217;re trying to say. &#8220;I should respect jumped-up bullying idiots doing a pointless job, because then they&#8217;ll respect me?&#8221;</p>
<p>FWIW, I&#8217;m never actually rude to aviation security people, much as they deserve it &#8211; it&#8217;s not worth missing one&#8217;s flight for the sake of standing up to one. But I hate the experience of having to defer and kowtow to them (or indeed to anyone &#8211; but if I&#8217;m going to have to defer and kowtow to someone, I&#8217;d rather it was someone who&#8217;d actually done something worth respecting).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/comment-page-1/#comment-108894</link>
		<dc:creator>Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnband.org/blog/2009/11/27/airline-security-is-the-last-refuge-of-the-scoundrel/#comment-108894</guid>
		<description>Well, two out of three ain&#039;t bad I suppose. I usually manage the full house, myself, although I know others who encounter similar difficulties as yourself. The problem seems to arise when people are confused about how the chronology of this &quot;mutual respect&quot; thing works. As, according to this post, are you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, two out of three ain&#8217;t bad I suppose. I usually manage the full house, myself, although I know others who encounter similar difficulties as yourself. The problem seems to arise when people are confused about how the chronology of this &#8220;mutual respect&#8221; thing works. As, according to this post, are you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

